Wednesday, January 05, 2005

Southeast Asia Tsunami: How Can God Be Called Merciful?

As the death toll from Sunday, December 26, 2004’s Tsunami has climbed to over 155,000 people, a question could possibly come to peoples’ minds: where was God in all of this? How could a merciful, loving God allow this to happen? Is God impotent? Is He evil and sadistic? Even questions as to who really is the “divine force” or “higher power” in the universe.

The Bible is absolutely clear for situations such as this. God was completely in control. He is merciful. He could have stayed the tsunami, but it was in His plan—yes, God ordained the tsunami. Even in this, despite how this blows our feeble minds, God is not evil, but loving and merciful toward His creation—especially toward mankind.

Let us consider that God is not impotent. If He had pleased, he could have calmed the sea and stopped the tsunami, as Jesus did to the sea when He was with His disciples (I’ll consider this later). What does God’s Word say about His sovereign hand over creation? “The LORD is great and… our Lord is above all gods. Whatever the LORD pleases, He does, in heaven and in earth, in the seas and in all deeps. He causes the vapors [or clouds] to ascend from the ends of the earth; who makes lightnings for the rain, who brings forth the wind from His treasuries” (Psalm 135:5-7). As the psalmist recognizes, the LORD, or YHWH is above all gods. There is not a duality of gods. There is not a struggle in or among the gods. There is not an evil force equally battling the good force. YHWH is a personal God, and He is in complete control.

Consider the words of Elihu, as they are appropriate for this present circumstance. “Listen closely to the thunder of [God’s] voice, and the rumbling that goes out from His mouth. Under the whole heaven He lets it loose, and His lightning to the ends of the earth…. God thunders with His voice wondrously, doing great things which we cannot comprehend. For to the snow He says, ‘Fall on the earth,’ and to the downpour and the rain, ‘Be strong.’ He seals the hand of every man, that all men may know His work…. Out of the south comes the storm, and out of the north the cold…. Also with moisture He loads the thick cloud; He disperses the cloud of His lightning. It changes direction, turning around by His guidance, that it may do whatever He commands it on the face of the inhabited earth. Whether for correction, or for His world, or for lovingkindness, He causes it to happen” (Job 37:2-13). This applies to tsunamis and earthquakes all the same.

Let us not forget Jesus, God the Son. While sleeping in a boat on the Sea of Galilee, when a gale arose that threatened the life of Him and His disciples (though He was always in control, being God), He does not fret (an example for us, as Jesus was perfectly human, and so showed us that we ought to trust in God). When His disciples awoke Him, “He got up and rebuked the wind and said to the sea, ‘Hush, be still.’ And the wind died down and it became perfectly calm.” His disciples, in response to this exclaim, “Who then is this, that even the wind and the sea obey Him?” (Mark 4:37-41). Let us not be of little faith, as the disciples were. Let us respond like Jesus with perfect faith toward God. And we will only trust God if we believe He is sovereign over all and merciful, and that He is causing all things for our good out of His pleasure. If God will not intervene, either because of human freewill or that He does not want to step into the natural order, then we simply should not trust Him. Rather we should trust our own ingenuity. But that is not the God I worship. My God is the God of Jesus.

Let us take comfort, as Jesus did, in God’s sovereignty. After all, Jesus faced death on the cross in accordance with God’s plan (Acts 2:22-24). He faced death and the full wrath of God for all who will believe. Jesus became sin on the behalf of the Church so that all in the Church would not face the wrath of God, but would be counted righteous (2 Corinthians 5:21). He died to save people from all tribes, tongues, people groups, and nations (including those who died in the tsunami). He died for all who will believe. Now that is mercy—that God would send the Son to take the punishment of sinful man. God has truly shown Himself merciful. This is the ultimate show of mercy and the mercy that extends to every situation that befalls the creation.

However, some may still respond, how is God merciful in all of this; and in all natural disasters? He is able to stop them but He does not. In fact, He even ordains them—they are part of His plan and He is behind them. That sounds like an evil dictator, not a loving God. Yet this is the case only because our minds are not trained. We have errors in our thinking.

First, does not God have the right over His creation to do as He pleases? After all, He is the creator. He is the potter, we are the clay. As Paul asks in Romans 9 (not the context of Romans 9, but it fits here with the question at hand), “The thing molded will not say to the molder, ‘Why did you make me like this,’ will it? Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use?” (Romans 9:20-21) God has every right over His creation. He created us from nothing and sustains us. Everything we have comes from God. Therefore, we must respond with Job, “Naked I came from my mother’s womb, and naked I shall return there. The LORD gave and the LORD has taken away. Blessed be the name of the LORD.” In moments like these we can either bless or curse God. We can either worship the Almighty for His great power and mercy toward us and toward all of His creation, or we can curse Him because we fail to understand His ways. If we respond in this manner, like Job, we will be found without sin on our lips (Job 1:21-22). We will respond like this only from faith; only if we have the “peace of God, which surpasses all comprehension” (Philippians 4:7).

Why must we not curse God? Why is it that we should respond in worship toward the God who causes this? Because His purposes are good, and they will stand. He is good and acting wisely in ways that we cannot comprehend. We must trust Him and obey Him, and we will see at a later time, at the latest on the Day of Judgment, that His ways were without fault. As Paul continues in Romans 9, “What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory…” (22-23). God is patient with His creatures, even though mankind is in rebellion against Him. God shows His patience toward even the vessels of wrath who are destined for destruction. He is going to make His wrath and power known, yet He endures sinners with patience.

Why does God endure with patience sinners? Because He is making “the riches of His glory” known to the “vessels of mercy.” God’s greatest purpose in all of this is that His glory be made known through His causing all things that ever occur to happen for the good of the Church (Romans 8:28). This tsunami happened ultimately for the purpose of God advancing His Kingdom and purifying the Bride of Christ, the Church, that He will receive the glory (and God is deserving of all honor and glory, for He alone is God).

He has shown Himself patient with mankind. He has shown Himself patient with the many who died in Indonesia, India, and East Africa. How so, you ask? Little children were killed who never got a chance to live. The reason we have this mistaken understanding of God’s patience, thinking that He was impatient and was unmerciful toward all those killed, who lost loved ones, and those who have been left homeless, is because we misunderstand sin.

All of those people were deserving of hell. Perhaps many of those killed were even Christians; we simply do not know. What we can say, is that God is just if any of them do face God’s wrath at the judgment for they are all sinners. I am speaking of people who are totally depraved before God (I wrote a couple articles on how bad sin is; please read it if you disagree with my observations here http://www.fallennotforsaken.com/lenny/2004/11/justice-of-hell-why-loving-merciful.php and here . http://www.fallennotforsaken.com/lenny/2004/11/whatever-happened-to-sin.php). What will happen to the children? I honestly am not certain. God is just and merciful. Perhaps they are covered by the blood of Jesus. Yet let us not get sidetracked; death is mankinds’ fault, not God’s’.

The fact remains that you, my reader, may be a sinner, as Jonathan Edwards said, in the hands of an angry God. Perhaps this disaster was ordained for the very purpose of saving your own soul, and maybe the souls of countless others (I’ll return to this in a minute.) Jesus faced a similar situation. One which was a natural disaster and one which was brought upon people by an evil man (sounds like a similar example to September 11, 2001). He warns and exhorts His audience, “Do you suppose that [they] were greater sinners than [you and all the rest of mankind] because they suffered this fate?” Take a moment to pause before you read on to consider your answer. “I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish” (Luke 13:2-5). Perhaps tsunamis do not threaten your part of the world. Perhaps earthquakes do not either. Perhaps it is a long-shot that terrorists would attack your hometown. Yet car accidents still occur, and heart attacks, and floods. Maybe, and hopefully, none of these will come upon you. Yet you will still face the judgment of God. So unless you repent (http://www.fallennotforsaken.com/lenny/2005/01/what-is-true-repentance.php), you turn from your sins and follow Christ, you will perish as those in the tsunami did. Heed this warning, for it comes straight from Christ. It is relevant to you.

I do not claim to know why God purposed this tsunami. God remains completely joyful in Himself in heaven, and I rest in the confidence that because God is completely happy, so will I be and can be, for I trust in Him and look forward to being filled with the joy of Christ for eternity (the joy, though to a lesser degree, that can come to all who hope in Christ). If God were ever to be unhappy not only would He cease to be God, but my eternal happiness and my grounds for happiness would be demolished. Though God is not an emotionless God. He is a God of complex emotions. From Scripture He seems to be a God who is sorrowful over the loss of life, and so He is, on one level, saddened at the death of these 155,000 people. He is a personal God, and so He feels the proper emotions in this situation along with His creatures.

However, God’s purpose in this, without a doubt, is for the furtherance of the gospel and His Kingdom. How is this slated to take place? I do not claim to know that answer. Perhaps Christians will be those who help out the most in this disaster and so the doors will be opened for the gospel in countries that are currently opposed to the gospel of Jesus Christ. Perhaps this will serve to get Christians on their knees in prayer and to get them mobilized for missions. Perhaps the survivors of the victims will hear the gospel and God will grant them faith. There are countless possibilities for why God did this. Only He knows, and His counsel stands. We can be certain that He works all things according to the counsel of His will, and that nothing will thwart His purpose (Job 42:2). He is sovereign. “Stand and consider the wonders of God” (Job 37:14).

Only God knows how many times He has relented of causing disastrous earthquakes, tsunamis, and countless other “natural” disasters. Only God knows how much worse this tsunami could have been (it could have killed 155,000,000!) This only shows us how feeble we, as humans, truly are. Thankfully, a personal, merciful God is in complete control. Only a sovereign, all-sufficient, completely happy God is a true comfort in times such as these. Do not curse God; rather worship Him for His great power and might. “Tell of His might, sing of His grace; whose robe is the light, whose canopy space. His chariots of wrath the deep thunder clouds form, and dark is His path on the wings of the storm.” “Frail children of light, and feeble as frail, in Thee do we trust, nor find Thee to fail. Thy mercies how tender, how firm to the end, our Maker, Defender, Redeemer, and friend.” (O Worship the King, by Robert Grant, verses 2 and 4).

9 Comments:

At 11:36 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am a Christian that loves God with all of my heart. I have to say that I think you are an absolute nutt case to make a statement that God is behind this Tsunami. Why wouldn't you just acknowledge that the Tectonic plates on the earth surface shifted. Would you suggest that every killing Hurricane or Tornado is sent into motion by God? These are caused by the turbulent forces of our atmoshere, not God. If you are correct, then God must only be operating in the Southeastern US, because we don't have Tornados and Hurricanes in the West.

 
At 12:43 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Asian Tsunami was NOT God's perfect OR permissive will.

Is it God's perfect OR permissive will that people go to Hell? NO!! God is totally, absolutely, 100% opposed to people going to Hell. It is in no way a part of His will. So then why do we blame other tragedies on God? Why do we say that God "allowed it for a purpose"?? I believe statements like that are blasphemous!

Is God really "sovereign" in the way that traditional religious people have defined the word??


Read on....


THE SOVEREIGNTY OF GOD

The word "sovereign" is not used in the King James Version of the Bible. It is used 303 times in the Old Testament of the New International Version, but it is always used in association with the word "LORD" and is the equivalent of the King James Version's "LORD God." Not a single one of those times is the word "sovereign" used in the manner that it has come to be used in religion in our day and time.

Religion has resulted in the invention of a new meaning for the word "sovereign," which basically means God controls everything. Nothing can happen but what He wills or allows. However, there is nothing in the actual definition that states that. The dictionary defines "sovereign" as, "1. Paramount; supreme. 2. Having supreme rank or power. 3. Independent: a sovereign state. 4. Excellent." None of these definitions means that God controls everything.

It is assumed that since God is paramount or supreme, that nothing can happen without His approval. That is not what the scriptures teach. In 2 Peter 3:9, Peter said, "The Lord is...not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." This clearly states that it is not the Lord's will for anyone to perish, but people are perishing. Jesus said, "Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat" (Mt. 7:13). Relatively few people are saved compared to the number that are lost. God's will for people concerning salvation is not being accomplished.

This is because the Lord gave us the freedom to choose. He doesn't will anyone into hell. He paid for the sins of the whole world (1 Jn. 2:2; 1 Tim. 4:10), but we must choose to put our faith in Christ and receive His salvation. People are the ones choosing hell by not choosing Jesus as their Savior. It is the free will of man that damns them, not God.

Men virtually have to climb over the roadblocks that God puts in their way to continue on their course to hell. The cross of Christ and the drawing power of the Holy Spirit are obstacles that every sinner encounters. No one will ever stand before God and be able to fault Him for withholding the opportunity to be saved. The Lord woos every person to Him, but we have to cooperate. Ultimately, the Lord simply enforces the consequences of people's own choices.

God has a perfect plan for every person's life (Jer. 29:11), but He doesn't make us walk that path. We are free moral agents with the ability to choose. He has told us what the right choices are (Dt. 30:19), but He doesn't make those choices for us. God gave us the power to control our destiny.

Typical teaching on the sovereignty of God puts Jesus in the driver's seat with us as passengers. On the surface that looks good. All of us have encountered the disastrous results of doing our own thing. We desire to be led of the Lord, and teaching that nothing happens but what God wills, fits that nicely. However, the scriptures paint a picture of each of us being behind the wheel of our own lives. We are the one doing the driving. We are supposed to take directions from the Lord, but He doesn't do the driving for us.

Man has been given the authority over his own life, but he must have the Lord's direction to succeed. Jeremiah 10:23 says, "O LORD, I know that the way of man [is] not in himself: [it is] not in man that walketh to direct his steps." God created us to be dependent upon Him and our independence is at the root of all our problems. As if it wasn't bad enough for man to try to run his affairs independently of God and His standards, it has been made even worse by religion teaching us that all our problems are actually blessings from God. That is a faith killer. It makes people totally passive.

James 4:7 says, "Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you." This verse makes it clear that some things are from God and some from the devil. We must submit to the things that are of God and resist the things that are from the devil. The word "resist" means, "Actively fight against." Saying, "Whatever will be will be" is not actively fighting against the devil.

If a person really believed that God is the one who put sickness on him because He is trying to work something for good in his life, then he should not go to the doctor or take any medicine. That would be resisting God's plans. He should let the sickness run its course and thereby get the full benefit of God's correction. Of course, no one advocates that. That is absurd. It is even more absurd to believe that God is the one behind the tragedy.

Acts 10:38 says that Jesus healed all those who were oppressed OF THE DEVIL. It was not God who oppressed them with sickness. It was the devil. It's the same today. Sickness is from the devil, not from God. We need to resist sickness, and by faith, submit ourselves to healing, which is from God through the atonement of Christ.

I know someone is thinking, What about the Old Testament instances where God smote people with sickness and plagues? There is a lot I could say about that if I had the space, but a simplified answer to that question is that none of those instances were blessings. They were curses. God did use sickness in the Old Testament as punishment, but in the New Testament, Jesus bore our curse for us (Gal. 3:12). The Lord would no more put sickness on a New Testament believer than He would make us commit a sin. Both forgiveness of sin and healing are a part of the atonement Jesus provided for us.

Deuteronomy, chapter 28, should forever settle this question for all who believe the Word of God. The first 14 verses of Deuteronomy 28 list the blessings of God and the last 53 verses list the curses of God. Healing is listed as a blessing (Dt. 28:4). Sickness is listed as a curse (Dt. 28:22, 27-28, 35, 59-61). God called sickness a curse. We should not call it a blessing.

Knowing that God is not the author of my problems is one of the most important revelations the Lord has ever given me.

It is very comforting to know that God only has good things in store for me. Any problems in my life are from the devil, of my own making, or just the results of life on a fallen planet. My heavenly Father has never done me any harm and never will. I KNOW that.

I am not saying that there is nothing to learn from hardships. Most of you reading this letter have come to the Lord because of something in your life that overwhelmed you and caused you to turn to the Lord for help. That situation was not from God regardless of the results. It was you turning to the Lord, and the faith you placed in Him that turned your life around, not the hardship.

If hardships and problems made us better, then everyone who has had problems would be better for them. Those who have the most trouble would be the best. That simply is not so.



I don't believe it blesses our heavenly Father for us to blame Him for all the problems that come into our lives. Sure, He will comfort us when we turn to Him in the midst of our problems, but He doesn't create the negative circumstances that hurt our lives.


God is sovereign in the sense that He is paramount and supreme. There is no one higher in authority or power, but that does not mean He exercises His power by controlling everything in our lives. God has given us the freedom to choose. He has a plan for us. He seeks to reveal that plan to us and urge us in that direction, but we choose. He doesn't make our choices for us.

In many instances, it is our wrong choices that bring disaster upon us. In other cases, our problems are nothing but an attack from the devil. In some cases, natural forces of an imperfect world cause us pain. Our tragedies are never the judgment or correction of God. Jesus came to give us abundant life. The devil came to steal, kill and destroy (Jn. 10:10). Don't ever get that confused. If it's good, it's God. If it's bad it's the devil.

This is a fundamental doctrine of Christianity that must be understood properly if you want victory in your life. Believing that God controls everything renders a person passive. Why pray and believe for something better? Whatever God wants will come to pass. That simply is not true.

The Lord is the answer to all our problems. He is not the problem.

 
At 10:15 AM, Blogger Aaron S said...

"Why wouldn't you just acknowledge that the Tectonic plates on the earth surface shifted."

As if God wasn't in control of Tectonic plates?!??!?!?! Are you going to say that animals and dirt and water and wind have free will too? Don't you people read the Bible? Please, I beg of you, put down whatever you're reading a starting reading it!

 
At 11:57 AM, Blogger Aaron S said...

Behold, the word of God:

Psalm 89

9 You rule the raging of the sea;
when its waves rise, you still them.
10 You crushed Rahab like a carcass;
you scattered your enemies with your mighty arm.
11 The heavens are yours; the earth also is yours;
the world and all that is in it, you have founded them.

 
At 11:11 PM, Blogger Lenny said...

First I will address the question by “anonymous.” Friend, I am thankful to hear that you are a God-fearing person. However, I must contest that your next statement does not flow from the love of Christ. While I personally did not take offense at your calling me a “nutt case”, nor the fact that you are then calling all of my friends, my professors, and people of the ranks of J.I Packer, John Piper, Billy Graham, and John MacArthur (among others) “nutt cases”, I must rebuke you for not exhibiting the fruit of the Spirit, but rather the deeds of the flesh (Galatians 5:19-23), and for not heeding the clear command of Ephesians 4:29: “Let no corrupt word proceed out of your mouth, but what is good for necessary edification, that it may impart grace to the hearers.”
But to address your statement that it was tectonic plates; I entirely agree with you. However, we must look behind the tectonic plates. God is control of all things; natural or supernatural. Even if God did not work in an active way in this tsunami, we must acknowledge that God created the tectonic plates. And when He created them, He, at the least, knew that they would collide and do this in December of 2004. So God was at least, in a passive way, responsible for this occurring.
I would, however, say that God is more than just passively responsible here; but actively in control. He brought plagues upon Egypt, controlling nature (Exodus 7-12). God controlled the sun and made it stand still (yes, a sovereign God can do this without people flying off the planet) (Joshua 10:12-15). God also caused the sun to move backward (2 Kings 20:9-11). Yes, this is possible for a God who is absolutely in control—even though it is completely against everything modernism and postmodernism say (since they deny the miraculous because they don’t believe that God could possibly be sovereign.)
Now, as for God causing stuff to happen in certain places… God has made the world in a certain way—in other words, He has created both the ends and the means. God did not put the ocean in Iowa, thus Iowa does not have hurricanes. He also did not put the Andes Mountains in Eastern South America, thus that affects the weather and the rain. The lack of tectonic plates in the Ohio valley leads to a lack of earthquakes in the region. But God created it like this. That does not mean that places that do not normally experience “natural” events cannot experience them (if you’ll recall, Miami FL had a tornado a few years ago). God is everywhere and in control of all—everywhere!
Though I am not a prophet and I cannot speak on this authoritatively, perhaps this was God’s judgment upon those people. They have been persecuting and killing His children, Christians, for some time now. Perhaps He has acted toward them as He did toward the Egyptians through Moses or toward the Assyrians when they came against Jerusalem and God smote 185,000 in one night (2 Kings 19:35-37).

I will now address the objections made by the second objector. Let me start by defining sovereign: I use it as an adjective meaning both “of the most exalted kind : SUPREME” and “having undisputed ascendancy,” where ascendancy means “governing or controlling influence : DOMINATION,” according to Merriam-Webster’s 11th Collegiate Dictionary. This is the view that was held by the Puritan’s, the Reformers, Augustine, and the orthodox Church through the ages (not the Greek Orthodox denomination per se, but the Church of Jesus Christ from the first century to the present).
We must understand that there is a difference between “blaming” God, and ascribing to God the recognition that He deserves for His control of the universe. Rather than growing angry at God because of His prerogative in creation—in other words, God has the absolute right over His creation (cf. Romans 9)—we should honor Him as being God. We should revere God for His awesome power and His ability to act as He pleases. This will drive us to thankfulness for His great mercy toward us. We should be thankful that He so generously gives us breathe, food, friends, etc when He owes us no such things (after all, He did not have to create us—He did so out of His great grace).
In Luke 13, Jesus responds to some misconceptions of God and what humans deserve. “Now on the same occasion there were some present who reported to Him about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices. And Jesus said to them, ‘Do you suppose that these Galileans were greater sinners than all other Galileans because they suffered this fate? I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish. Or do you suppose that those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them were worse culprits than all the men who live in Jerusalem? I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.” (Luke 13:1-5).
In the same way, do not think that those who were killed by the tsunami were worse sinners. We should not be surprised that God destroyed them with the tsunami. Rather, we should be surprised that God has not yet destroyed us—and this is only because of His mercy. Unless you repent, you will perish in hell (this is directed toward all, not just the person who responded to my post). The reason we cannot accept God’s divine right to destroy His creation is because A) we are not ready to accept that God is God and so, as creator, has exclusive and complete rights over His creation, and B) we do not comprehend man’s inherent sinfulness and God’s holy displeasure toward those who sin. Being intergalactic Benedict Arnolds (we have committed treason against God and His government), we are worthy of complete and utter destruction. Be surprised that God did not destroy you (on account of His mercy), not that He did destroy others.
We do not know why God destroyed them. All that we can know is that He was just in doing so and that He had His reasons—reasons on account of His glory and for the ultimate good of His Church. Perhaps He acted in this manner because they have been killing Christians for centuries. This may be His wrath poured upon them for their rejection of the gospel and their treatment of Christians. Perhaps that was not the reason. That is not ours’ to know (Deuteronomy 29:29).
Let us also recognize that God is merciful to all. As Paul tells us, God “is the Savior of all men, especially of believers” (1 Timothy 4:10). God is merciful to humans, on the merits of Christ. God gives even unbelievers time to repent—He is patient with them (cf. Romans 2:4). He mercifully gives them rain, sun, and every other good things they experience. Yet, unto believers, “we know that God causes all things to work together for good” in making them to be more like Christ. Thus, believers should accept every trial they encounter with joy, knowing that it is from the hand of the Great Physician, applied ever so delicately, to discipline them and to lead them into being more Christlike (cf. Romans 5:1-5, Hebrews 12:4-13, James 1:2-4).
Now, to address your highlighted section (the second, and longer portion of your writing), God’s sovereignty is clearly seen throughout Scripture. See my post once again to see many references from Scripture about this (also see the books listed below).
The doctrine of God’s sovereignty is not merely some heady doctrine. Rather, it should give us great assurance. God is in control, and so anything that occurs was not out of His power or out of His plan for good. What seemed and was meant for evil, God ultimately meant it for good (cf. Genesis 50:20). We, as His children, can thus be assured that nothing can take us from God or separate us from Him (cf. John 10:29-30, Romans 8:28-39). We can thus rest assured that nothing will overtake us that is more powerful than God and that will ruin His plans. In fact, even the worst injustice ever took place on account of God’s ordination—the crucifixion of Jesus Christ. Wicked men crucified Jesus according to God’s predestined plan and desire (Acts 2:22-36).
Now, no where in the Bible does it say that Jesus paid for the sins of every person (see above for the meaning of 1 Timothy 4:10). 1 John 2:2 does not mean that Jesus paid for everybody’s sin, but either that He Himself is the only offer of propitiation (see F.F. Bruce’s commentary on the Gospel of John and the epistles of John), which would go along with such passages as 1 Timothy 2:5-6, or that Christ is the wrath bearing sacrifice on account of not only the community to whom John is writing, but also to all Christians throughout the world (a very likely interpretation considering such passages as Romans 3:22-26 from Paul (using the Rule of Faith, or that Scripture interprets Scripture), and that John’s epistle is very heavy on the aspect of the community of believers). Either way, Christ did not atone for all sins, otherwise, all are saved, or Jesus does not actually save, but we save ourselves, and our repentance and faith is actually what merits propitiation.
Now, man does not choose to go to hell. God sends people there because of their sins. No one would ever choose hell. Rather, because they are either never offered the gospel (such as those who never hear) or because they reject it, they are already condemned because they have not believed and so their sin is still upon their heads (cf. John 3:16-18). God sends people to hell because He is just.
Now, God clearly does not woo all as you say. Certainly based upon natural revelation they should repent and trust in God, yet they won’t. He does woo those who hear the gospel, but the hardness of their hearts because of their sinful natures keeps their free will from ever accepting Christ (unless otherwise acted upon, such is the case with Lydia in Acts (cf. Acts 16:14-15, also see Romans 6 and 1 Corinthians 2:14).
Now, I must indict the fact that you used Jeremiah 29:11 out of context. For one thing, that is speaking of Israel—the only people in the world who have the right to claim the promise of that passage are believers—the Church. That verse is used out of context when referring to unbelievers.
Also, divine sovereignty, when probably taught, as all Biblical doctrine must be, does not make people passive, but gives them both the reason behind their acting and the assurance to act and to be blessed on account of their acting (cf. Philippians 2:12-13). John Calvin calls those who are passive on account of fatalism, due to their misunderstanding of God’s sovereignty, stupid (see the bottom of the page of http://www.fallennotforsaken.com/lenny/2005/01/whatever-happend-to-sin-part-2-sin-and.php.) God’s sovereignty, when properly understood, will lead people to action.
Now, in reference to James 4:7, that says nothing of some things being from God and others from Satan. Rather, consider Job chapters 1 and 2, and also 2 Samuel 24:1 and 1 Chronicles 21:1 and see that Satan is merely a puppet in the hand of God—God is free from being questioned because Satan is a willing agent and God does not author sin.
And I agree: “The word "resist" means, "Actively fight against." Saying, "Whatever will be will be" is not actively fighting against the devil.”
Now, yes Jesus heals those who are oppressed of the devil, but consider John 9 and 11. The blind man was born that way not on account of sin, but for the glory of God. Lazarus did not die because of his sin, but that Jesus’ disciples might see and believe.
Now, in saying that God acts differently in the Old Testament than He does in the New Testament, as you have, goes far beyond the bounds of the continuity of Scripture. This is the same God. He is not more merciful now than He was. He killed Ananias and Sapphira for lying. He was very patient with Israel for 1000 years. God also kills those who partake of the Lord’s Supper in an unworthy manner (1 Corinthians 11:27-32). Do not forget Revelation, where God treads out people in the winepress of His fierce wrath. God is the same yesterday, today, and forever (cf. Hebrews 13:8). All mercy and forgiveness, all atonement for sin, is through Jesus Christ: both OT and NT (cf. Romans 3:21-26).
James 4:13-17 tells us how we ought to view our lives. We should not boast in our own freewill and desires. Rather, we ought to accept and have in our minds that “If the Lord wills, we will live and also do this or that” (James 4:15). If we boast, we merely do so in evil arrogance (James 4:16).
I’m sorry that I cannot address all that you have said, as I cannot do so in reasonable timing. However, I will leave you with a couple posts of my own and some books that address the issue at hand.
I have written a couple of weblogs addressing the topics that you have mentioned. On Hell and the justice of God: http://www.fallennotforsaken.com/lenny/2004/11/justice-of-hell-why-loving-merciful.php, on God’s unconditional election of the children of God and the reprobate: http://www.fallennotforsaken.com/lenny/2005/01/whatever-happend-to-sin-part-2-sin-and.php. There are also a few books that I would recommend for further study by God-fearing authors on the subject of God’s sovereignty: The Pleasures of God, by John Piper, God’s Lesser Glory and God’s Greater Glory by Bruce Ware, The Institutes of Christian Religion by John Calvin, edited by Lane and Osborne (this is an abridged version), The Bondage of the Will by Martin Luther, and Chosen by God by R.C. Sproul.

 
At 11:08 AM, Blogger Lenny said...

Let me clarify what I mean in James 4:7. What this shows is that there is a difference between that which God morally acknowledges and the activities that are not desired by God, but rather are in league with Satan. This does not, however, teach a dualistic view in which God is at the whim of Satan and humans.

 
At 1:57 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

But u can call me nathan. Hey guys im a bible college student from australia. I have read this rather lengthy discussion and agree with justinstout. and here is why.

I believe that God is in control of the whole universe. He is the Divine creator. However after studying theology, the more i realise i don't have enough intellegence to understand God, let alone to explain to others His actions. However He did write the bible (V.P.I.) and so in there, we can find keys to His ways and character.

Dod God allow the tsunami to happen? YES. Why? Because we have free will. No-one has touched on why though.
Here is why. When God created the earth, everything on it was "good".He then gave man the freedom to chose, by saying "this is the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. You are free to eat from any tree but this. For if you eat of this, you will surely die." That was showing Adam a choice and a consequence for that choice.
In case you dont know Lenny, Adam later ate of that fruit. Bringing about the fall of man. See Gen 3. He goes on to say in verse 17, "cursed is the ground because of you". Therefore Adams decision to eat of the fruit, brought us into a cursed world. One where natural disaters happen, not because of God's will, but in spite of it. He could reach His hand out and stop it, but he allows us free will.He is not a divine puppeteer. The world is left to run its course and so therefore we must not blame God for this tsunami,but praise and worship Him for our free choice, and His amazing love shown by sending Jesus to die for us.

 
At 9:40 AM, Blogger Lenny said...

Nathan,
It's good to hear from a brother in Australia.

If you read my original post, you'll notice that I am absolutely not blaming God. Rather, I'm giving credit where credit is due, and I'm praising God for His power and infinite knowledge (past, present, and future). And in the post I also speak of God's amazing love/mercy in sending Jesus Christ.

Originally this post had little to do with free will. In fact, a person could hold to mankind's libertarian freedom and still believe that God caused the tsunami (Classical Arminianism).

Tell me, where in the Bible does it say that God has left the world to run its course? As I have pointed out in the main post and in my comments, that is the exact opposite of what we see in the Bible. What you are proposing is quite nearly deism. What was proposed by justinstout was the openness view of the universe--that God is not in control of or does He even know all future events--whether he admits or not, that is what his words portray, and so do yours.
We need to see which argument is the representation of the Biblical God. Again, I suggest that those of you who disagree with what I have presented read Bruce Ware's God's Lesser Glory.

Nathan, you really didn't look at any Biblical evidence. All you did was mentioned the fall (and, for your records, yes, I know about the fall--if you read much of anything else on my weblog, you'll see that I have), and from your mention of the fall you drew all sorts of conclusions, none of which are exegetical from the text. Rather, you read in your presuppositions and theology, rather than taking them from your text.

 
At 12:34 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hurricane Katrina - NOT from God!
NOT God's Judgement or wrath!

The Offense of the Cross - a response of Hurricane Katrina



Grace and peace to you from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. In the wake of Hurricane Katrina we see that the gospel of Jesus Christ and the cross is still offensive to many people. The Bible says, Behold, I lay in Zion a chief cornerstone, elect, precious; and he who believes in him shall not be ashamed. To you, therefore who believes, he is precious. But to them who are disobedient, the stone that the builders rejected, the same is made the head of the corner, and a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense, to them who stumble at the word, being disobedient. [1 Peter 2:6-8; Romans 9:33]


So, how is it that we clearly see the offense of the gospel in the aftermath of Katrina? By the mouths of several so-called Christian spokespeople, who are preaching that God had executed judgment on New Orleans and the rest of the Gulf Coast for their wickedness (a la Sodom and Gomorrah). The offense is clearly seen from the righteous and unveiled side of the cross where we are rejoicing in God's mercy through Jesus--and not His judgment as some others are. The reason being is that these people are vicariously executing their own sense of justice (or what they would do if they were God) totally without even considering the message of the gospel and the meaning of the cross.


Even worse, they have degraded the suffering that Jesus endured--and have trampled upon the Son of God as it is written in Hebrews 10:29, who has trodden under foot the Son of God, and has counted the blood of the covenant wherewith he was sanctified, a unholy thing and has done [it] despite the Spirit of grace.


Brothers and sisters in Christ, and those that do know yet know Him, I beg you by the mercies of God that you understand this simple truth. God has judged the world and found it and everyone in it guilty. Because of His great love for us, God, instead of executing His full wrath upon all mankind, sent His Son Jesus into the world to suffer rejection, torture, and to die upon a cursed cross, and suffer the penalty of judgment, which we deserved, which was separation from God, and to take the sin of the entire world upon His body, being made a curse for us, so that we would have a way to be reconciled to God, the gift of eternal life by placing our complete trust in what Jesus did. And after His resurrection, Jesus ascended into Heaven to forever sit at the right hand of the God, living ever to make intercession for us, being the mediator of the new covenant established and confirmed by His precious blood. Brothers and sisters, knowing this, was the suffering and shed blood of the Son of God not enough to stay God's execution of judgment?


Did it only serve to appease the angry God of the Old Testament for 2,000 years? Apparently, in the minds of some in the religious world, it wasn't. By saying that God is executing judgment with a hurricane, they are saying that the precious blood of our Lord and Savior, the sinless Lamb of God, the only human being ever to live without sin, who willingly laid down His life for us, was not enough to satisfy God's wrath. And herein is the offense of the cross because the sacrifice of Jesus was more than enough to completely destroy sin and wipe out all
transgressions that were against us through the law, nailing it to His cross [Colossians 2:14].


What the gospel teaches is that the whole world is guilty before God; and therefore we are all on a level playing field. Consequently "saintly" folks like Mother Teresa, Pope John Paul, Billy Graham, and even the apostles are no more worthy (or less worthy) to receive forgiveness than the likes of Adolf Hitler, Ghengis Khan, Osama Bin Laden, Saddam Hussein, or the BTK killer, or any raping, murdering, child molester who has ever been born.


Again, this truth is what offends religious people who think their works make them worthy and a "good choice" for God's redemption, while they look down their noses upon people who otherwise are not walking with the same piety. The apostle Paul sharply scolded those religious people who judge others while they themselves commit the same offenses. Romans 2:1 says,
Therefore you are inexcusable, O man whosoever you are who judges. For wherein you judge another, you condemn yourself because you that judges another, you do the same things. Let me remind you of what is written in James 2:10, For whosoever shall keep the whole law, yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.


Consequently, you religious people who think the city of New Orleans received judgment for its transgressions, you are even more guilty because not only are you guilty and deserving of punishment, but you, thinking you are escaping the judgment of God while boasting in your own goodness and position, you will actually have a worse fate than they because as the Bible says,
But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them who commit such things. And you think this O (religious) man, who judges them who do such things, and you do the same that you shall escape the judgment of God? Or do you despise the riches of his
(God's) goodness and forebearanace and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance? [Romans 2:2-4]


In truth, anyone who thinks God has judged any country, place, or people since the death and resurrection of Christ is despising the goodness of God. Religious people just cannot bring themselves to the understanding that the worst vile person on this earth is just as worthy as they are of having relationship with God, being blessed, and healed, and prospered and totally forgiven. Although no one would actually admit this, but their words, when they make such claims about Hurricane Katrina, 911, and the Pacific Tsunami being God's judgment, betray what is in their hearts. They are offended.


When I was a police officer and did not know the Lord, I was offended when I heard that some serial killer had been born again in prison and had given his life to Jesus Christ. It disgusted me to think that this evil and wicked person would have even been given the chance to repent because of what he had done. My words were, "If that scum bag gets to go to Heaven, then I don't want to be there." According to Scripture, I was despising the goodness of God. Wow, was I deceived!


The cross and the gospel of Jesus Christ was an offense at the time of Jesus, and still is today; and it is just as destructive because it comes from the mouths of our so-called "leaders" in the church. Jesus said this in Luke 13 in response to being told about the Galileans whose blood Roman Governor Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. Do you suppose that these Galileans were sinners above all Galileans because they suffered such things? I tell you, No, but except you repent you shall likewise perish. Or those eighteen upon whom the tower of Siloam fell and slew them, do you think they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem? I tell you, No, but except you repent, you shall likewise perish. Jesus is teaching us that we cannot judge someone's level of sinfulness based on what is or has happened in their lives--as if punishment and reward were distributed proportionate to a person's wickedness or goodness. If this were true, wouldn't a country like Haiti and the Sudan, or any Muslim nation have been destroyed long ago? Or wouldn't a city like Las Vegas or Hollywood have been leveled by now?


Rather, Jesus is teaching us not to judge another person, but focus on your own relationship with God or you will perish as well. Did New Orleans and the Mississippi Gulf Coast deserve the destruction it received? Not really. In fact, it deserved much more. I believe Sodom and Gomorrah paled in comparison to what goes on in many of our cities. But thanks be to God who doesn't give us what we deserve, but has given us grace, mercy, and forgiveness because of the covenant in Jesus Christ. Jesus suffered so that God would have no more floods as in the days of Noah, or destruction like Sodom and Gomorrah. His anger is stayed; His wrath appeased as it is written in Isaiah 54:8-10, In a little wrath I hid my face from you for a moment; but with everlasting kindness I will have mercy on you, says the Lord your Redeemer. For this is as the waters of Noah to me. For I have sworn that the waters of Noah should no more go over the earth, so have I sworn that I would not be angry with you, nor rebuke you. For the mountains shall depart, and the hills be removed, and my kindness shall not depart from you; neither shall the covenant of my peace be removed from you, says the Lord who has mercy on you.


And in Hebrews 10:16, This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord. I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them. And their sins and iniquities I will remember no more.


As long as the true gospel is preached, people will be offended by it. For you who are offended by this letter and thus by the gospel of peace, you have your reward. Because the Bible speaks to them who refuse to humble themselves, despising the gospel, He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses. Of how much sorer punishment do you suppose shall he be thought worthy, who has trodden under foot the Son of God, and has counted the blood of the covenant wherewith he was sanctified, a unholy thing and has done [it] despite the Spirit of grace? [Hebrews 10:28-29]


I write these things not to intending to be harsh, but for your encouragement in the love of God in Christ Jesus. Furthermore, I am in no way suggesting that there are no consequences for sin. The Bible is clear when it says Be not deceived. God is not mocked. For whatsoever a man sows, that shall he also reap. For he that sows to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that sows to the Spirit shall reap of the Spirit life everlasting. [Galatians 6:7-8] This verse speaks of personal judgments or consequences of a person's actions (good or bad) not the sin of a city, state, or region.


It is the unconditional love and goodness of God that draws us to Him, so I ask you to meditate upon His love and rejoice in the grace, mercy, and forgiveness of God extended to everyone through Jesus Christ, with all thanksgiving that God is not the author of destruction, but of life, joy, and peace.


Finally, under the New Covenant, God's method of correction with His children is through His revealed Word of God. This is supported by Scripture (2 Timothy 3:16-17; 1 Corinthians 10:11). May the grace and peace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all.


Other Scriptures that support this teaching:


Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offense of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation. Even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.


John 5:22-27 For the Father judges no man, but has committed all judgment unto the Son [so] that all men should honor the Son, even as they honor the Father. He that honors not the Son honors not the Father who has sent him. For as the Father has life in himself; so has he given
[life] to the Son to have life in himself. And [he] has given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.


Isaiah 53:4 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities; the chastisement [punishment] of our peace [with God] was [placed] upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.


Galatians 3:13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us, as it is written, Cursed is every one that hangs upon a tree.


2 Corinthians 5:21 For he [God] has made him [Jesus] to be sin for us, who knew no sin, that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.


Mark 15:34 And in the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying Eloi, Eloi, lama sa-bachtha-ni? Which is being interpreted, My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?


Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh.


Hebrews 9:24-28 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us. Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest enters into the holy place every year with blood of others. For then must he [Jesus] often have suffered since the foundation of the world. But now once in the end of the world he has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment. So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of man; and unto them that look for him he shall appear the second time without sin unto salvation.


Hebrews 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honor, that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

(written by JeffPate) 9/24/2005

 

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